Q & A With Judge Bobby R. Baldock

To learn more about Judge Baldock, check back with the  Tenth Circuit Historical Society for the upcoming Oral History of Judge Bobby R. Baldock.

 Website for any other information.
http://www.10thcircuithistory.org/

Transcript

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Judge Baldock Q&A Mixed 11.2

Tue, 11/2 11:47AM • 16:16

SPEAKERS

Leah C. Schwartz

00:00

I'm Judge Bobby ball dock and we're listening to the tales of the tip.

Leah C. Schwartz  00:05

Hello, and welcome to Tales from the 10th. A podcast about the rich history, culture and contributions of the 10th circuit brought to you by the US Court of Appeals for the sensor get and the 10th circuit Historical Society. I'm your host, Leah Schwartz.

00:20

And I'm producer Tina. Hello.

Leah C. Schwartz  00:23

We are so fortunate to have judge Bobby ball doc joining us today to share this story. Tina as court librarian, what can you tell us about Judge ball doc?

00:31

He's amazing. Judge ball Doc is a senior judge for the US Court of Appeals for the 10th circuit. Born in Rocky, Oklahoma judge Paul duck eventually moved to New Mexico, where he graduated from the New Mexico Military Institute, and later served as a captain in the New Mexico National Guard. Before his nomination to the bench, he practiced law in Roswell, New Mexico for over 20 years. He was first nominated to the bench in 1983, and has now served in the US Court of Appeals for the 10th circuit for over 35 years. Without further

Leah C. Schwartz  01:04

delay. Here's judge Bobby ball doc.

01:09

Well, as I told you the other day, I got this accent in New York City. So anyway that

Leah C. Schwartz  01:16

we can under understand you I thought that would have been an accent from Rocky, Oklahoma.

01:24

I don't know where it is. But I can recognize a person from Oklahoma real quick. So that's great.

Leah C. Schwartz  01:31

Oh, it rocky can't be too big of a town. I don't think I've ever heard of it before.

01:36

I don't even think it exists anymore. Now they really don't. I know that. When Chief Judge Henry. He found rocky some way and got him to do a little certificate that made me mayor of the city for a day. So, he did it. I don't know. But he did. So

Leah C. Schwartz  01:59

that is a wonderful, good thing to have. Friends that are judges, I suppose.

02:06

Oh, absolutely.

Leah C. Schwartz  02:07

Yeah. Are you ready to get started? I am ready. We actually met you and I back in December of 2013. I was one of the fortunate law clerks who got to take part in your tour of the Byron White courthouse. I don't expect you to remember me because you give this to her, I think to every incoming law clerk, you probably have for quite some time. Is that right?

02:38

That's correct. I've done it for a long time.

Leah C. Schwartz  02:43

So, we've already mentioned you're from Rocky, Oklahoma. How did you end up in New Mexico?

02:52

Well, when I was 10 years old, my parents moved to Roswell. And my father was in the lumber business. And he became a manager, one of the camp lumber companies here in Roswell, New Mexico. So that's how I ended up in Roswell.

Leah C. Schwartz  03:09

Can you explain to our listeners how you ended up being appointed to the US Court of Appeals for the 10th circuit?

03:17

Well, yes, when I became a federal district court judge, we had to move to Albuquerque. And I had told my wife earlier that we would not have to move. So, I was in a little bit of trouble. And I was only on the District Court bench about two years and eight months or something like that, unbeknownst to me that Oliver Seth, who was a circuit court judge, he took senior status. And I was immediately called by the Senate, Senator Domenici at that time, and he said that he and the President had talked and wanted to know, if I would consider being elevated to the circuit. I had no idea that was coming. And I said, Well, I've got to visit with my wife about that, because I don't make decisions without the two of us being in agreement. But I was trying a case in Las Cruces. So, I drove all the way back to Albuquerque on the weekend. The senator told me they needed to know by Monday, I asked my wife what she thought about that. And her question to me was, do we have to move to Denver? And I said, No, at the circuit level, I can live basically anywhere in the six states at our jurisdiction. But I could also live in Rosalind, she said, go for it.

Leah C. Schwartz  04:42

I did. That's great. Did you move you move back to Roswell? Boy,

04:46

oh, listen, I had to get out of the way of the door before my wife had run over her home and she was ready to come back to Roswell.

Leah C. Schwartz  04:55

What is your favorite thing about being a judge?

04:59

I love the law. Law. And I had a great trial practice. And I enjoyed the District Court bench. And I was prayerfully, hoping that I had an ability to weigh facts and to read law and to make a decision

Leah C. Schwartz  05:17

is there are a part about the job judge that you don't like as much.

05:22

Oh, by land when I took senior status, I told him, I said, I'll continue to carry a full load. But I am not going to serve on any more death penalty cases. I knew that the death penalty on the basis of the decisions and the concert was legal. But I had had my fill of being involved on death penalty case, those reach as any case should, but they reach to the very core of your being

Leah C. Schwartz  05:51

outside of being a judge. What do you most enjoy doing?

05:57

Fly fishing. That's, is there anything else besides that? We have in New Mexico, we're a high desert plateau. But we have one of the world's greatest fly-fishing areas in the San Juan River. And I've fished in Wyoming, the Green and the Yellowstone, and then up in Montana, but the San Juan River, and its quality waters, once I fished there, and that was the first year and 19 not 1988 or 1989. Judge Ebel and I took Justice White.

Leah C. Schwartz  06:35

And when you say Justice White, you were referring, of course to justice Byron White.

06:40

Yes, that's correct. Wow.

Leah C. Schwartz  06:43

And so, you had an opportunity to go fly fishing with our court’s namesake.

06:48

Yes, that's correct. And I've also had Justice Scalia on the San Juan for eight days to a few years ago. And what a fantastic trip and and he's another he loved fly fishing.

Leah C. Schwartz  07:03

That's right. Well, I have to ask if they were successful. Yes, Justice White and

07:11

Oh, justice. Why it was an excellent fly fisherman. Justice Scalia put his whole heart and I have to tell you this one story about with Justice Scalia. We had a discussion, almost a legal decision on when was a fish caught. Now I maintain that whenever you hook a fish and you play him, and they get off, you done, the less caught the fish. And he now talk about an originalist. His, his concept was a fall caught fish was not caught until you put it in your net. And then you could release it. So, one day, he and I were out in the middle of the river, and we'd gotten out of the boat, because I knew the place, he was fishing, he was going to catch some fish. So, I was out fishing few yards from him. And he did he caught several fish. But he did not have his net. And he was having to catch him and then take the hook out, because all catch and release. So, we finally got back in the boat. Justice Scalia dome, he said, did you see all those fish are caught? I said you didn't catch one fish. And he said, you saw me? And I said, No, you didn't have them in your neck. And so that became the first exception to the main rule is that if you don't have your net with you, and you catch a fish that's caught.

Leah C. Schwartz  08:41

That is great. That is great. I'm surprised you didn't say it had to be on the plate to be caught. Well, so you've obviously meant a lot to your colleagues on the bench being a judge as long as you have. I'm wondering how you think that they might describe you?

09:03

I have no idea. I mean, they haven't thrown anything at me yet. No, no tomatoes or anything like that. So, I hope and pray that they think I'm studious and that I get things right by following the facts and following the law of each case that I hear. I hope that way they consider me.

Leah C. Schwartz  09:27

Absolutely. Who Judge has meant the most to you with respect to your professional life as a lawyer and a judge?

09:37

Oh, that's an EASY Quote. There was a federal or state district court judge by the name of Georgia Hal Reese, Judge Reese, and he was a stickler extremely bright as a young lawyer when I started practice in 1960. He was the state district court judge for the Fifth Judicial District here in Chavis County. He was a strict taskmaster; I think he had ever case in the state of New Mexico memorize because you couldn't surprise him about any case. He was tough on all of us young lawyers, and the most dreaded thing that you wanted to hear when you were trying a case is counselor, I'll see you in my chambers. And you knew that one of you was in real trouble. You just hoped it was the other person. I can't tell you what a fantastic man and a learned jurist that he was in a great mentor.

Leah C. Schwartz  10:36

How about your personal life judge who's meant the most to you? I'm guessing I know the answer based on what you've mentioned. So far,

10:44

Bucky, and I've been married for 64 years. Not only is she the love of my life, but she's been the greatest sounding board and a person of wise beyond her years. And all I can say is, words cannot express how much I love my wife.

Leah C. Schwartz  11:03

You've been very lucky. How about the 10th circuit judge? Is there a figure within the 10th circuit? Who particularly inspires you? Past Present?

11:14

Several, one of my favorite colleagues came on the court the same year I did Steven Anderson from from Utah, he reminded me a lot of Judge Reese, and then always prepared always what I referred to, and I told him several time laying landmines for the lawyers, because he he actually knew the cases better than the lawyers knew. And I would just sit and listen to the question because I knew figured out real quick from reading the briefs and the research. I knew where he was going. The lawyers knew where it was going. And there was no way they could avoid the trap. So, But Stephen Anderson is just one of my dear colleagues, and one of the other one’s Judge Stephanie Seymour, from Tulsa, Oklahoma. And she became, of course, one of our chief judges, but always prepared. I don't think I ever heard a crossword come from her mouth, to the lawyers. Now she would, she had to hang it on you if you weren't really careful. But she would do it in such a nice way that the loggers knew they had been had. That's all there is to it. So, and a great Chief Judge, she really was. So those, those basically and both of those are senior judges. Now I'm both of them. Judge Anderson is in a, I forgot what kind of senior status he's in. But Judge Seymour's in senior status just like I am, and still carries a caseload.

Leah C. Schwartz  12:49

I see. One of the things we've been thinking about on this podcast judge, since it's about the 10th circuit is what characteristics define the 10th? circuit? If anything, do you think that there's any unique qualities or characteristics that you'd attribute to the 10th circuit or 10th? Circuit lawyers?

13:09

Oh, absolutely. First, starting with the court, it's the collegiality of our court, we meet together, although for the last year, we've suffered greatly, our terms of court, we are all together in Denver. As you can imagine, as you know, lawyers have disagreements, judges have disagreements. But at night, every evening, after we hear cases, we get together, and we're able to get to know one another's spouses or kids, the ups and downs of what makes us tick. We're a very close-knit group of judges, which I sit with other circuits, none can compare to the 10th circuit. We may disagree, but that's based on the law, not because we just disagree, because I'm this way or that way. And my colleagues, they're all extremely bright. It's just a joy and a privilege to work with them. I mean, it's just a joy and a privilege, and that's what sets the 10th circuit court, apart from all the other courts, then the lawyers of the 10th circuit, most without exception, know that we demand good lawyering. You're going to hear about it one way or the other. If you're not presenting a good case, of which most of the time we see fairly good lawyering in. And Mexico lawyers know that they're going to hear from me, if they don't live up to the standards that that good lawyering should match.

Leah C. Schwartz  14:52

What advice would you give to younger lawyers, judges who are starting out in the legal profession

15:00

You just have to work hard but be able to organize your time. So that family still has a priority. And so that's my best advice that I can they work hard. But make sure you have a priority in life of which your family still comes first. I tell my law clerks in knowing me and where I come from, I have a priority in life that I want them to understand about me. There’re three things that I recognize in life. Number one, first and foremost is my God. Secondly, is my family. And then third is my work. But I do the very best for all three that I'm capable of doing.

Leah C. Schwartz  15:47

Thank you. Today's episode was produced and edited by Tina Howell and contains original music by Brent Cohen. Special thanks to Stacey Dionne, Greg Kerwin, Diane Bowers field judge ball doc and Linda Brown. I'm Leah Schwartz. See you next time.